Sound Off! Avengers: Endgame

Welcome back to Sound Off!, a semi-regular column where members of Speculative Chic gather together to chat about the latest BIG THING in entertainment. This time, come to the end of an era and discuss Avengers: Endgame, which premiered in the United States on Friday, April 26, 2019.

Sound Off! is meant to be a reaction, but not necessarily a review. After all, while we are all individuals, even mutual love of something (or hate) can come from different places: you may find everything from critique to fangirling to maybe even hate-watching.

Now, join Nicole Taft, Merrin, Nu Yang, Nancy O’Toole Meservier, Shara White, and J.L. Gribble as they talk about Avengers: Endgame! [Note: Spoiler-free for the first half and then all of the spoilers after the giant red warning!]

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Nicole: Because we aim for no-spoiler sound-offs (most of the time), this one will be particularly short. Simply because I feel anything I say will reveal something important. If not as a spoiler, but as an element in the movie that I want people to enjoy themselves.

I went into this movie completely blind. I muted every Endgame-related word on Twitter. I ignored Facebook as much as I could once the movie released. I’d avoided the trailer. I wanted to be surprised at every turn, not being able to guess what I might see or who might not come back from the particular adventure, should that occur. So I will say a few things in bullet points.

• Yes, it is everything people hype it up to be.
• No, you will not see a lot of twists coming.
• I absolutely love what they did with Hawkeye.
• Yes, I did cry, and I know other people were as well, so bring tissues.
• I liked the end. I know that sounds generic, but there’s something special about it.
• There is no end-credits scene, but there is a sound. I have no idea what it’s supposed to mean. I can guess, but I’m not sure I’m right.
• As much as I enjoyed myself, I do currently feel like I am the only person who walked out of that movie angry at one particular thing. I don’t know if it could be changed and still have the same effect, but nonetheless, I’m angry about it, and I surmise I will be for a long time. (Then again, maybe I’m not. I’ll have to unmute my Twitter to find out, I guess.)

And that’s Endgame in a nutshell. Yes, I know it’s not much, but this is a movie that has literally been just over a decade in the making. Go see it for yourself. You owe it to yourself to see the fruits of that labor, our fandom, and a damned good movie.

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Merrin: I called my best friend when I left the movie theater and she asked me how it was. The only thing I could really say that was completely and totally spoiler free was a quote from my then four-year-old nephew after watching Frozen: “It was really long, then it ended.”

Did I love this? No. Did I particularly like it? Still no. Can I think of any other way to cap the Infinity Stone arc? Given time, maybe, but honestly? No. Still, improvements could have been made to this movie to greatly improve my watching experience, and I’m going to attempt to talk about them without spoiling anyone.

I expected character deaths, but [spoiler redacted]’s death on [spoiler redacted] while retrieving the [spoiler redacted] was particularly galling, given a similar scene in a previous movie. It made me so angry I flipped off the movie screen and seethed for about an hour. I would happily have sacrificed [spoiler redacted] to not lose another [spoiler redacted].

I was disappointed that [spoiler redacted] didn’t have a bigger role than seeming completely arrogant and then… not really doing much in the final battle. Given the weight of expectation coming into this film, all of that just kind of came to absolutely nothing.

I really didn’t love that a fat body on one of our heroes in response to trauma and PTSD became the butt of so many jokes in the film. That’s all I really have about that.

I did like a lot of things too. I avoided all spoilers and speculation so vehemently that the solution to the issue was one that I hadn’t even considered, though I had a really good feeling the [spoiler redacted] was going to factor into it in a big way. I liked how that sequence played out for the most part, except that no one bothered to tell [spoilers redacted] how exactly the [spoiler redacted] was retrieved. The sequence about Captain America’s ass had me howling with laughter. [Spoiler redacted] getting to have a conversation with his [spoiler redacted] was lovely.

I really liked seeing [spoiler redacted]’s growth across the movies, and I’m really impressed with how much [spoiler redacted] is able to convey through that much makeup. I was really pleased with the amount of story time that character got in this film, though I wished for a bit more resolution to the story line.

I am not excited about the set up for Guardians of the Galaxy 3, if that’s what that was, because I can’t think of anything I’d rather see less than those two characters having a pissing contest for two hours.

On the whole, I think I like the individual character movies much better than these films that try to bring everyone together for this big story line, and I’d rather just keep watching those. I went into this with superhero fatigue and I left with superhero fatigue and I’m just ready for a break.

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And now for the spoilers. Seriously, below are spoilers. Don’t say I didn’t warn you!

Nu: It was the end of an era when I walked out of the theater after Avengers: Endgame. I laughed, I smiled, I cried — okay, I sobbed. But after 10 years and 22 movies, can you blame me?

Endgame picks up shortly after the devastating loss of half of the universe’s population (and the majority of the Avengers). As someone who was stunned with the depressing ending of Infinity War, I was eager and anxious to see how the remaining Avengers would fix this and bring everyone back. Overall, I enjoyed the movie, but there were a lot of plot holes that bothered me (that usually happens when your entire plot revolves around time travel). In the end, I had to let them go, but I’ll share some specific thoughts below. There will be major spoilers.

Things I liked:

• Tony living with Pepper and their daughter in a nice, secluded cabin in the woods (“I love you 3000!”).
• Thor making amends with his mother.
• Tony making amends with his father.
• Thor aiming for Thanos’s head.
• Steve living a full life (I have mixed feelings about this, though; see my points in the next section).
• The PORTALS scene, when the resurrected Avengers return to kick Thanos’s butt.
• Seeing Thanos and his army get dusted.
• Nebula’s entire character arc.
• Hulk and Bruce living as one.
• Tony’s sacrifice (I’m at peace with this).

Things I didn’t like:

• Natasha’s sacrifice. I get it, but I don’t like it, especially when it feels like she was being fridged for manpain.
• Steve living a full life with Peggy. When we saw Peggy again in The Winter Soldier, she had lived her own long, full life, so would Steve’s life with Peggy erase that? Or is his perfect life with Peggy a new timeline? And did the writers completely forget about Sharon? Also, when Steve took the stones back, I wondered why he also didn’t try to save Bucky from being brainwashed or stopping Hydra from infiltrating SHIELD.
• Lack of Captain Marvel. I didn’t know it at the time, but Brie Larson actually filmed all her scenes before she even shot her own movie, so it explains a lot of why she felt detached from the story.
• The rat that triggers the reactor in Scott’s van and releases Scott. That was just lazy.
• The five-year jump. Did none of the missing people/Avengers age? It was obvious Cassie Lang aged, so why are Peter Parker and Ned still in high school?
• Depressed Thor as a fat drunk (the gag got old after awhile).
• Steve shaving off his grief beard.

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Nancy: Screw you, big purple guy! This review is going to have some spoilers.

The day before I went to see Avengers: Endgame, I joked with a co-worker that I was expecting this film to make my year. And while that was clearly an exaggeration, you couldn’t tell from the way I cleared out my schedule. Not only did I pre-order my IMAX tickets right when they went up for sale, but I even took Friday off from work.  Avengers: Endgame wasn’t really a film, it was an event, and I wasn’t going to let anyone spoil the end for me.

The question is, did I like it?

I came out of Endgame quite happy. It had everything you could want in a superhero epic, from exciting fight scenes, to noble sacrifices, and plenty of character drama. Marvel movies are apt to lean on spectacle, and there’s plenty of that to be found here, but the writers of Endgame know that the real reason why fans show up again and again is due to an emotional investment in its characters. Endgame is a movie whose foundation is built upon those characters the MCU has developed over the last decade or so, and the result is a movie that’s very satisfying.

Which brings me to the next question, how does it measure up to other Marvel movies?

Admittedly, as much as I enjoyed Endgame, I found Infinity War to be a tighter and overall better film. But the fact that Endgame is a top ten Marvel movie for me, rather than a top five, actually says more about the high quality of the MCU more than anything else. There were a few creative choices that didn’t resonate as well with me as they clearly did with some other viewers, the biggest one being Thor. While I’m happy that Thor: Ragnarok has inspired the MCU to embrace Chris Hemsworth’s comedic side, I’m not sure a descent into full-on self-parody was the best way to explore his significant grief. That and there were one too many fat jokes for my taste. In addition, while I understood why Black Widow’s personal journey brought her to make such a tragic sacrifice for her found family, part of me is sad that Natasha didn’t get to be a part of the big-girl power moment at the end.

While not every character got to have the most satisfying ending, there were plenty that certainly did. Seeing Nebula face down her past evil self represents a significant moment for this Guardians characters. As a longtime fan of Peggy Carter, I’m so happy that the time travel plot was able to deliver Steve his happily ever after. And while Tony’s ultimate sacrifice is heartbreaking, it feels like a suitable end for a character who began as such a selfish man and grew into the greatest hero.

Endgame is a film that got me pumped about the world created in the MCU, as well as excited for the future. Sam Wilson as Captain America? Captain Marvel in present day? Peter Parker alive and well? Sign me up for the next ten years of Marvel movies.

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Shara: I’ve officially had a week to process, but all I really want to do is go see it again. Overall, I found Endgame to be a pretty rollicking success: The movie had so many great moments, and I loved wondering just how everything was going to come together in the end.

What I loved: Captain Marvel’s fight with Thanos. Scarlet Witch’s fight with Thanos. Nebula’s entire arc. LOKI. “Hail, Hydra.” America’s ass. Everything involving Steve with Thor’s hammer. The image of Steve standing alone on the battlefield facing off against Thanos and his army the moment before he hears Falcon say, “On your left.” Tony’s meet-up with his dad. Tony’s daughter. Steve finally getting to reunite with Peggy. This last particularly warms my heart, because I’ve always wondered if they’d find a way to bring Steve’s Peggy to OUR time, and it never occurred to me until Endgame that Steve might go back to Peggy’s time. That it likely spun off an alternate timeline that screwed things up? Don’t care. Watching Steve dance with Peggy was AMAZING.

What I didn’t like/still processing: Black Widow. Oh, poor Black Widow. The writers, rarely, if ever, knew what to do with her character, and while I appreciate the fact that she and Hawkeye at least FOUGHT over who would go over (and I do mean fight), I hated that she was the one to go. Because while we got Gamora back, we’ve lost another kick-ass woman, and the standalone movie we’re supposed to get is even less welcome, because it’s not furthering her story, it’s filling in gaps. I’m sure it’ll be good and fun, but I hate that they never gave us her movie before now, because if they had, they might’ve had a better direction to take her character in the Avengers movies.

Also, I could’ve cared less about Hawkeye’s dark turn (which, according to the internet, is an alter ego named Ronin, not to be confused with Lee Pace’s Ronan of Guardians of the Galaxy), even though it was meant to create tension of who would ultimately sacrifice themselves to get the soul stone. But was there ever really a question? Hawkeye lost his family. Of course he was going to get them back.

And don’t get me started on the fact we didn’t get a proper funeral for Black Widow, even though there was plenty of time to mourn Tony Stark (which was all very moving and I’m sure I’ll cry the next time I watch).

I was also sad to realize Goose wasn’t still kicking (or if he was, he was ignoring everyone, as cats do). I would’ve liked to see him go after Thanos.

Last but not least, I’m not a fan of the way Thor’s character was handled. Many people have commented on this (here’s a great piece from Tor.com) and no one needs my two cents, but I’m sorry that’s the direction they took. I think they could’ve done a lot with his PTSD, isolation, and drinking without making him the butt of every joke, and the fact they did was disappointing, even if insulting people is Rocket’s M.O.

Overall, I suspect the good of the move will outweigh the bad when I look back. I never really felt the length of the movie, and I truly was happy with so much the movie had to offer, including those tantalizing glimpses of what the future might hold for the Marvel Universe. All in all, they stuck the landing, though I’ll say I do hope they continue to learn from each film and do better with each new one. As it stands, I’m looking forward to the next Spider-Man movie, as well as whatever comes next.

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J.L.: If you haven’t seen the majority of the films in the Marvel Cinematic Universe up to now, you’re probably not going to start out with Avengers: Endgame. Especially since Infinity War and Endgame work best as a really long, two-part movie. I look forward to owning both and watching them back-to-back at home. It’s also hard to focus on having a lot of character moments with such a huge cast, so I forgive the lack of character depth for a lot of the heroes in favor of focusing on the main six Avengers members.

(Even though Scott Lang as Ant-Man had a fairly major role in the film, I think he both acted as and provided the MacGuffin that kept the movie going. His story was interesting, but predictable.)

Without retreading ground that has already been covered above and elsewhere, I definitely feel that Tony Stark and Steve Rogers had full, satisfying arcs over the course of the first three phases of the MCU. I knew one of them was going to die in Endgame, and one of them was going to get at least a taste of happy ending. Little was I to know that the answer for both of these things was both men.

I was much more interested in the journey of Bruce Banner and Hulk learning to love themselves. A better peek into that journey would have been satisfying, as would some closure between him and Natasha beyond another character pointing out the awkward moment.

One of my biggest complaints about this movie regarded Thor. The MCU has briefly brushed on how PTSD is a relevant occupational hazard for our heroes with Tony in Iron Man 3, and Thor definitely has reason to experience it now. Unfortunately, here it was buried behind excessive fat joke gags, which does a disservice to the character and to the film’s creators. Body-shaming above character development? Really?

As usual, Clint Barton gets short shrift and we gain only tantalizing glimpses of how things work out for this character. I hear rumor of a Hawkeye show in the future of the Disney+ streaming service, and perhaps things have now set up for a deep dive into how this man ticks. Perhaps as he passes on his skills to a daughter stand-in? *cough*Kate Bishop*cough*

And also as usual, Natasha gets the short end of the stick. She was finally a leader in her own right. She’d finally found her family and the place she belonged in the world. And then she got the ultimate fridging. UGH. I’m predicting now that Guardians of the Galaxy 3 will be about “rescuing Gamora.” I wouldn’t mind if a certain Black Widow found her way off Vormir along the way.

Hands down, the “time heist moments” were my favorite part of the movie. They were an excellent showcase of what the MCU does well, in their combination of intelligence and humor. I appreciated the fun and poignant call-backs to previous MCU films. And yes, I cheered for the elevator scene, because he might be America’s ass, but Steve Rogers is also still the most brilliant strategist of his time.

I can’t wait to see where things go from here. And as Speculative Chic’s MCU Fangirl-in-Chic, you can be assured that I will be along for the ride.